and johnson -- was a terrible -- he's kind of like lincoln in a way -- are you for slavery or are you not? because he's trying to keep the border states in line. he was terrified that if he ceded the black delegation that the white democrats from kentucky and tennessee and the other border states would walk out, and that's what -- he was pretending that he didn't have anything to do with it, but he was consumed by no other issue, and putting that together is an amazing story -- or chapter, i think, in our american history about the sensitivity of this issue at this time. c-span: but when he came up to the white house, he didn't have a meeting scheduled with lyndon johnson and he was supposed to meet with hubert humphrey. >> guest: right. c-span: and there was a lot of maneuvering around. >> guest: i'm sorry. you're talking about -- this is at selma. this is at sali in february of 1965. dr. king can out of jail in sali and announced in depression, he came out of jail and his aides said you can't just come out of jail. you have to have a purpose for coming out of jail. and he said i'm t